Comments on: Expressing Thanks • Itar’es – Naat – Klem

By: T'Mynn

T'Mynn — Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:59:25 +0000

Many languages actually do this. They make contractions of words onto something simplistic. Although in a few languages the contraction might not make sense to a non speaker unless they are familar with the culture and reason for the word or phrase shortening.

By: Briht’uhn

Briht’uhn — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:16:05 +0000

oT’Mihn —

Most of the lexicon in V’______ seems to be older. There are many Romulan words that also begin this way, but they are very uncommon in Modern Golic Vulcan.

It’s always nice to theorize…

By: T'Mynn

T'Mynn — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 04:28:33 +0000

A very good discussion here.
I looked at some ancient Vulcan and noticed when I compared words on Ogen to it,the words were.longer. They had more vowels,soft sounding letters such as ‘h’s’, these may be doubled,as would some vowels,or ‘Ls”. Ogen,these same words have the extra letters cut off,making it a contraction . Its possible V’tosh is one of these contractions. It may have been written orginalky as”vhaahhtosh”. Only a theory. If you wish,I can put up a few words as examples.

sT’Mihn

By: Hazhar

Hazhar — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:06:18 +0000

oDzheimz,V’tosh k’tur is an interesting chneallge to fit neatly into Golic Vulcan. TOSH is a discrete syllable in Golic Vulcan’s watosh|-|, “ugly”. TUR is more difficult to simply pluck out. V’ is not a productive prefix in Golic Vulcan, but it appears in v’hak (elegy), V’Shar (Security Force), v’yak (while), and the modern question word for who is vi. Romulan also has v’ in at least one rendering for v’ruul (fool). I’ve actually never seen ENT Fusion , I’ll have to check it out to come up with any more theories about what that v’ might be doing. Of course, V’tosh could simply be an ancient frozen form out of the Vulcan past along the lines of English’s Samaritan , where one must know a specific story to understand what it means in the present to be a Good Samaritan . V’Shar seems to point strongly in this direction. TUR could always be an old word for illogic or recklessness in which case the k’ could take on the role of English “with” as one might assume naturally.

By: Briht’uhn

Briht’uhn — Sat, 07 May 2011 11:32:21 +0000

That's interesting. I've never thought of the apostrophe prefixes as “abbreviations” per se, but I've never had the discussion with anyone, so they really could be anything. I still haven't seen Fusion, but as long at V’tosh is not used to reference all Vulcan's in general, this seems very plausible.

By: James

James — Sat, 07 May 2011 05:26:45 +0000

Oh yeah, I like that you brought up the connection between tosh and watosh. If tosh means something like objectionable, or offensive, then wa’tosh would mean “particularly objectionable or offensive” and could be translated “ugly”. watosh might just be the same word without the apostrophe. I was thinking the v’ prefix might just be a sort of abbreviation for Vuhlkan, which is used on some words. A lot of these prefixes with no apparent meaning might be abbreviations for some other words. Anyway, it might mean that V’tosh simply means objectionable or offensive Vulcans. So going by all this, V’tosh k’tur might literally mean something like “objectionable Vulcans who reject the logic of suppressing their emotions”

By: James

James — Sat, 07 May 2011 05:13:18 +0000

Some of the novels have words with the v’ prefix also.
There’s v’asumi and v’shan which are Vulcan martial art forms. And there is v’ket and v’kor which are very much like v’shar. They are the Vulcan defense force and Vulcan police. I like your idea about k’tur meaning with illogic but it doesn’t seem to fit the situation in Fusion. I’d guess that “tur” means something more along the lines of “a rejection of logic – particularly that which leads one to the conclusion that Vulcans should suppress emotions.”

By: Briht’uhn

Briht’uhn — Tue, 03 May 2011 14:26:21 +0000

oDzheimz, V’tosh k’tur is an interesting challenge to fit neatly into Golic Vulcan. TOSH is a discrete syllable in Golic Vulcan’s watosh|-|, “ugly”. TUR is more difficult to simply pluck out. V’ is not a productive prefix in Golic Vulcan, but it appears in v’hak (elegy), V’Shar (Security Force), v’yak (while), and the modern question word for who is vi. Romulan also has v’ in at least one rendering for v’ruul (fool). I've actually never seen ENT Fusion , I'll have to check it out to come up with any more theories about what that v’ might be doing. Of course, V’tosh could simply be an ancient frozen form out of the Vulcan past along the lines of English’s "Samaritan", where one must know a specific story to understand what it means in the present to be a "Good Samaritan". V’Shar seems to point strongly in this direction. TUR could always be an old word for "illogic" or "recklessness" in which case the k’ could take on the role of English “with” as one might assume naturally.

By: James Toth

James Toth — Tue, 03 May 2011 07:13:45 +0000

And a wonderful answer it was. I kept thinking it was “shaya tonat” also, because that is what I kept seeing from other Star Trek fans. I kept trying to figure out how “shaya” which means “break” – like in tal-shaya where a person’s neck gets broken – how that would fit into the concept of thank you. But when you change the “sh” to a “ch” that subtle little alteration makes it a whole new word… A wonderful solution to the problem. Also making tonat into t’naat was a great way to further enrich the meaning of thank you as expressed by T’Pol. I’d like to see what you do with other problematic Vulcan expressions from Enterprise. For example: how do you get Vulcans without Logic from V’tosh k’tur?

By: Briht’uhn

Briht’uhn — Thu, 24 Mar 2011 03:47:16 +0000

oT’Chelle

It’s a great question, but you found the answer!

Wa’itaren..